This week on the podcast, the tables are turned and I am interviewed by one of my all time favourite podcast hosts, Jenny Blake, for a crossover episode on her Free Time podcast.
We engage in a heart-to-heart conversation and dive into the world of highly sensitive people (HSPs), empaths, and introverts in the business world. The discussion centres around building a successful and sustainable business that aligns with one's energy and soul, while embracing the strengths and challenges of being a sensitive CEO.
💝 Key Takeaways
Jenny Blake is an award-winning author, podcaster, and keynote speaker who runs a media and licensing company. She loves helping people move from friction to flow through smarter systems, powered by Delightfully Tiny Teams. In 2022 Jenny released her award-winning third book, Free Time: Lose the Busywork, Love Your Business (Ideapress, 2022). Jenny is also the author of Pivot: The Only Move That Matters Is Your Next One (Portfolio, 2016), winner of the Axiom award for Best Business Book in the Careers category, and co-creator of Googles’s global drop-in coaching program, Career Guru. She hosts two podcasts with over 1 million downloads combined: Free Time with Jenny Blake for Heart-Based Business owners, and Pivot with Jenny Blake for navigating change.
📚 Resources Mentioned
🔗 Where You Can Find Jenny
🌹 Rose's Resources
Ep#54 - Embracing Sensitivity: Building a Soulful Business - Jenny Blake (crossover episode)
Hey, it's Rose and welcome to another episode of the Sensitive CEO Show. And in this week's episode, the tables are turned and I'm being interviewed by one of my all time favorite podcast hosts, Jenny Blake. And this is for a crossover episode on her fabulous podcast, Fee Time, we have a wonderful heart to heart conversation, and we dive into the world of highly sensitive people in the business world.
We talk about building a successful and sustainable business that aligns with our energy and our soul, while embracing the strengths and the challenges of being a sensitive CEO. And some of the topics that we cover include setting boundaries, embracing our sensitivity, intuition, and I share with Jenny why I've chosen to take a pause from my podcast.
So before we dive into these juicy topics, let me share a little bit more about Jenny. So Jenny Blake is an award-winning author, podcaster, and keynote speaker who runs a media and licensing company. She loves helping people move from friction to flow through smarter systems, powered by delightfully tiny teams.
In 2022, Jenny released her award-winning third book Free Time, Lose the Busy Work, Love your business. Jenny is also the author of Pivot, The Only Move That Matters Is Your Next One. She's the winner of the Axiom Award for best business books in the career category and co-creator of Google's global Drop-in coaching program, Career Guru.
Jenny hosts two podcasts with over 1 million downloads combined, which is Free Time with Jenny Blake for Heart-based business owners, and Pivot with Jenny Blake for Navigating Change. To find out more about Jenny, you can find my interview with her on this podcast, which was episode 35, and I'll pop the link to that in the show notes along with all the other places that you can find her, including her two wonderful podcasts, which I highly, highly recommend.
So with that enjoy this conversation?
[00:00:00] Jenny: Welcome back Free Timers. I am so delighted to be here today with Rose Cox. She's the founder of the HSP Business School and host of the Sensitive CEO podcast We met, I have to give big thanks to Dave Asprey, who had me on his show and Free Time was just launching after we met in an elevator, at a dinner event at the TED Conference of all random things.
And Rose and I have been in touch in all kinds of different ways ever since I've been a guest on her show. She's a BFF alumni and she's just the most wonderful, joyful person. Her unique blend of soul science systems and strategy combines 20 years of her experience in the fields of online business, hypnotherapy, coaching, and psychology to help our clients build a successful and sustainable business aligned with their energy and their soul. You can see why we're fast friends. She works with highly sensitive people, empaths and introverts who have amazing gifts to share with the world, but struggle with both the business strategies and the mindset to fully step into their own. Rose, welcome to the show.
[00:01:07] Rose: Oh, thank you, Jenny. It's such an honor to be on free time. I've been an avid podcast listener to your wonderful show for a while now, and I think I told you last year you were my most listened to show in 2022.
[00:01:25] Jenny: I am so honored and I never even saw those Spotify stats, so just knowing that that was true for you and there was a little card you got.
I mean, that's the honor of a lifetime and we decided to do this conversation as a kind of crossover coffee talk catch because you shared some big news with me before we hit record about your business and your projects. But before we get there, I just wanted to ask you if you could share with FreeTime listeners, how do you define a sensitive CEO?
[00:01:58] Rose: Oh, I love that question. So I, I guess my definition of a sensitive CEO is to, to run our business in a way that aligns with our sensitivity. And when I say sensitivity, I'm. I'm not using a term that defines us as being weak in any way. I think it's just honoring the HSP trait that I know many, many of us have.
And, you know, doing business in our way and making it work for us. Having the right boundaries in place and yeah, really honoring our sensitivity in a, in an aligned way.
[00:02:43] Jenny: You mentioned boundaries. What do you think that sensitive CEOs struggle with the most? And of course as I'm asking you that I'm thinking, oh, let me count the ways.
[00:02:54] Rose: Oh, definitely. One of the biggest things is people pleasing and setting healthy boundaries, because as people pleasers, we obviously, we like to, to make everybody happy, but in the long run we're really, we're not making ourselves happy and obviously other people. So I think by setting the healthy boundaries, we're really protecting our own emotional wellbeing and also understanding the limits to balance the sensitivity with self care so that we don't become drained in our businesses.
[00:03:37] Jenny: On the subject of being a sensitive CEO, I feel like one of the things that people don't talk very much about are the challenges of managing people, even if it's contractors, where as a sensitive person, I feel more overwhelmed by managing people or navigating their emotions or their motivation or any of it.
And it's not just people pleasing in terms of clients, it's a real sense of it requiring an unnatural amount of energy for me to work with a large team. And that's probably why you and I connect, because I'm all about delightfully tiny teams out of necessity in a way, because I often feel too sensitive around the people aspects of the business.
Have you seen that with any of your clients?
[00:04:25] Rose: Yes, definitely. I think, when we're working with other people, we want to do the best for them, obviously. But I, I know personally for me, I have a very small team. I only have a podcast editor currently. It's my only team member. And I'm always really mindful of, oh, I hope that, I hope that, It's not too much for him to edit on this show, and I hope that I've made sense, or if I've had to cut something out and, and I feel really guilty, I, I don't think I make a good manager at all.
And I remember an episode on free time, that you did, I think, can't remember who your guest was now, but it was wonderful, wonderful giving permission. About, yeah, about managing a team or even, you know, having that small team and really, yeah, really honoring them as well.
[00:05:26] Jenny: I can relate to what you said of feeling bad sometimes with, let's say, certain assignments or I get really sensitive to the communication.
Like, oh, there's a punctuation mark shift. Are they mad at me? Did I do something wrong? Am I. Am I being overbearing? Am I a bad client? If they are having me on as a client, even if they're part of my team, it's like, oh, it's just this tiring narrative around it.
So before we hit record, you were sharing some news with me that you've decided to pause your podcast and I maybe wouldn't have made the connection if you hadn't said, you know, in keeping with being a sensitive CEO.
I'm gonna pause this project for now, and I'm always fascinated by. People who give themselves permission to stop doing something or to pause even if you don't know when you're gonna resume. And so I'd love if you could take us behind that decision and where you're at with it.
[00:06:21] Rose: Yeah, sure. so it's, it's something I've been thinking about for a while and I only very recently decided, I actually only last week, I, I've just been feeling really tired this year.
There's been a lot going on and I've been, I know I've been running my podcast now for, it will be a year actually this, yeah, this coming week it will be a year, and I've done around 50 episodes, so pretty much one episode a week and I've been pretty vigilant about keeping that schedule and I just feel I'm ready to have a bit of a break from it.
As I said, I've got a podcast editor, so I'm not doing that side of it, but there's always the other bits to do. And then, you know, the energy of getting on a call even, can be, I, I find it draining sometimes.So I decided, I'm gonna pause it for a bit. I don't know for how long? you know, it could be a year, it could be longer.
It might only be a couple of months because something I do love about the podcast, which I know we talked about in, when I interviewed you on, the sensitive CEO show a while back was it's such a wonderful way to meet people and it's. It's so nice to connect on podcasts and get to know our guests, so I know that I'm gonna miss that side of it.
But I'm just, yeah, I'm excited about pausing, having the break and I'm also pausing a little bit from other work. yeah, I think the decision, it seems funny saying this, but I'm gonna be 60 next year, which. It sounds kind of weird 'cause I don't feel 60 at all. Well, I'm still 58, but it's the end of next year.
But I just feel it's time to slow down a little bit. I've always been very driven. I've always worked pretty hard and I feel like chilling out a bit and going down to the beach a little bit more often than I do and doing more yoga, and I'm actually just starting a yoga teacher training next month, which I'm very excited about.
So yeah, there's a few personal projects coming up that I'm going to spend more time on.
[00:08:53] Jenny: Well, happy early birthday even if we're a year and plus out. It's funny, I have a lot of friends who are turning a big decade this year and maybe some next year, but multiple friends of mine, I'm turning 40, maybe even by the time this goes live in October.
Another friend just turned 40 a, a handful are turning 50, a few are turning 60, and it's so interesting. Just the checking in that we do with ourself at these decade markers. 'cause on the one hand, it's somewhat arbitrary, a number or a birthday, you know? But on the other, it's like a really interesting time to take stock of the previous cycle, the previous 10 years, and then look ahead to the next.
Was it hard for you to make this decision about the podcast and slowing down with some other work? Did you have any anguish or uncertainty about it, or have you been pretty clear for a while?
[00:09:46] Rose: Definitely a lot of anguish and uncertainty. I, yeah, I've been questioning am I doing the right thing? Should I be pausing it now it's just getting momentum now.
I'm getting a lot more downloads obviously, 'cause it's been over a year or just coming up a year. And part of me feels guilty, like, should I be doing this? Should I be stepping back now when I have put so much into it? So, yeah, it has been a hard decision, but I've been, I've been doing a lot of journaling on it, a lot of reflection on my walks, and it just feels right.
It's just, yeah, it feels really right to be doing this right now and having this pause.
[00:10:31] Jenny: Have you designed yet what you're gonna be doing? Like once things pause, I had an interesting conversation. Maybe you heard it with DJ did about sabbaticals and how sometimes. Those of us who are maybe recovering overachievers, we think we need to actually get a lot done during the sabbatical, or, oh, I'm gonna ramp these projects down, but I'm gonna write a book.
And then it's actually hard to let ourselves just go into a liminal state and do less. So I'm just curious how you're approaching this. Do you have any goals for this next phase, or are you gonna let it see where it takes you?
[00:11:10] Rose: It's interesting you mentioned that episode because that really helped me.
I remember listening to that on one of my many walks a while back, and I remember thinking, oh, you always have the most perfect guests when I need it. And I do remember that episode and so much of it was, yeah. Yeah, I relate to that so much. I don't have any plans. I try, it's funny, I have even the last few weeks, my husband's actually in Europe at the moment, so while he's traveling, I'm thinking, well, I can step back a bit too.
And, but I haven't, I haven't managed to have a break at all myself, myself, and spend less time away from the computer. So I guess one of my goals is to spend less time at my computer and out of my office, or even if I took the laptop to the beach, just, just to have a change, just to go somewhere different and, yeah, have a break.
[00:12:11] Jenny: I love that. That's a great goal. Just less time on the computer. I second that. I know sometimes I only work on my computer. I don't watch content. I don't procrastinate on any procrastination sites. It's just for work. And when it's closed, it is closed. Like I can't stand to look at it, you know, because, and I do have an office in the apartment that we're in now in New York City, but also the computer is an office. Like the computer represents work . It's one of the ways I've always created a little bit of psychological separation and I actually get quite antsy if people text me about work on my phone 'cause I'm like, no, no, no. That's not the work device. You know, I know for a lot of people it is, but it feels so good to close the laptop sometimes.
I'm curious. After a year of podcasting, what are the big themes you noticed? So you did an episode a week, you connected with all these people. What stood out to you, or what messages would you wanna kind of excavate from all of that for fellow sensitive CEOs,
[00:13:18] Rose: I think the main, the main messages from my guests would be doing business in a way that serves you as well as your clients but setting those boundaries. I know we've talked about boundaries, but that seems to be such a big theme with a lot of people and I. Oh, the other one would be working with fellow sensitives. I think a lot of the people I've interviewed, their niche market seems to be working with other HSPs and introverts and empaths, and I think working, working together, because we understand each other is such a nice way to run your business rather than working, you know, with people who don't necessarily have the same values or feel the same, think the same. I think it helps. And I, I know that a lot of my guests have, have businesses around the HSP trait.
[00:14:24] Jenny: When did you launch the HSP and sensitive CEO brands? Like, 'cause I, I would imagine that's been a journey for you too, as I know it has been for me. Of putting that out front, like I call it heart-based business, but my private community used to be for side hustlers and solopreneurs and creatives.
It was like for everybody, you know, and then at some point I got clear it's for heart-based business owners and so much shifted when I did exactly what you're saying. But I never thought about it through this lens of putting out the beacon. To work with fellow sensitives or fellow heart-based people, but it's such a game changer.
It's like, it's like a, just going into warm water after a cold, after a cold lunch or something.
[00:15:13] Rose: I love that analogy that, yeah, that feels so good. I totally agree. I know I used to work with, When I did my hypnosis and coaching and even when I had my web development business, and sometimes it would be great.
I think sometimes working with people that didn't have the same, I guess the same nervous system in some respects. That sounds funny. But there was something when I, when I launched the HSP business school and when I put it out on my website that I was only working with highly sensitives and introverts.
It felt so good, as you say, in getting into warm water. It just felt, it felt so right and even at the time I realized that most of my clients were actually HSPs and I was able to share the trait with them because they didn't know about it. But, once they did, it really helped them to understand themselves more and yeah, get more of an understanding on why they feel or think a certain way.
[00:16:25] Jenny: That's so interesting that you are already attracting that, and it makes sense, this piece around boundaries and doing business in a way that serves you. I keep coming back to it because I think one of the things that gets in the way, and I know it certainly did for me more, a little more in the past, but I'm sure it still shows up in certain ways, is that a lot of times my first impulse is to say, what's wrong with me?
So if I'm overly sensitive or I've been told my whole life, you're too sensitive. You're too sensitive. And so sometimes I don't always know which boundaries to set, and then I'll see or hear of a fellow business owner having some really strict boundary, which is now what I've tried to do, even in writing free time and sharing what I eventually got to in terms of how strict I'm with my schedule.
But sometimes I need to hear what someone else is doing. To go, what? I can do that, that's possible. For example, coaches who used to have a. You know, can't, no money back if you cancel within 24 hours. Like that always felt so bad to me. And I always felt like even if someone has a crisis an hour before our call, I'm not gonna take their money.
And maybe we're not meant to have our call on that day. I always saw it as a bonus hour for me. It was usually never a problem. And of course if someone was gonna abuse a policy like that, that would not be good. You would talk to them about it. But, you know, it's just interesting to me. The self-talk around this before we even get to, oh yes, you have permission to do business in a way that serves you.
There has to be a piece of recognizing it's okay to have these needs or to have these extra needs or extra sensitivities around some of these things.
[00:18:05] Rose: That's, that's so interesting. You mentioned that, about those strict policies about no money back, and I'm totally with you. I always put the clients first and if there was something that came up, you know, an hour before then yeah, I would give them another call.
I wouldn't take their money and it just didn't feel, it wouldn't feel right. But then I guess if they're pushing boundaries, then, then yeah, that might be a different story. I love the idea when I started out with the Hypnosis. I always used to sort of open up my calendar. I worked Saturdays.
I worked every day of the week. I didn't work Sundays, but I loved the idea of just having client days and I didn't know that you could do that. So I totally changed. I think a year into it. I changed. I took Saturdays out and I took Mondays out, I think. Probably six months after that. And then I took Fridays out and now I only work with clients one day a week.
I just have that block. But it was seeing what other people do and it was thinking, yeah, that that's actually, you can do that. You can just have one day for clients or two days for clients and you don't have to have your calendar open all the time. And that, that was a bit of an eye opener for me and it helped me to set clearer boundaries.
[00:19:39] Jenny: What other creative things have you seen clients or friends set up in their business to accommodate their sensitive nature?
[00:19:49] Rose: So the client days, and then also days for podcast interviews and then having a total day off. so having a Monday off, for either for self care or for working on your business.
And I generally do, Fridays are generally my admin day, and just working on the business or doing more yoga or going to the beach more. It really depends. I'm trying to think of other, other business owners I know, a coach that I worked with a while back, she would have a week off every month, which I tried to implement.
I got as far as blocking the calendar out, so I would not take calls or clients or interviews. but I would still be at my computer that I still found that hard to have that week off and I also know people that have a month off every quarter, which I really like the idea of too. So moving towards things like that is definitely something I'm gonna be moving into as well.
[00:21:01] Jenny: What about the piece of being a business owner and a sensitive c e o? Because it's built in right there to the title, just around the day-to-day uncertainty of running a business. And now I'm not saying all sensitive CEOs are the same. Certainly there are aspects of this that are, I mean, some introverts or sensitives might be super creative and kind of thrive creating something from nothing and being internal and solving problems, like there's a lot to like here.
But I'm wondering from the mindset piece overall of just the challenges and pressures inherent to running a business, what themes that you see that are unique to sensitives in general, knowing that we can't just say for everybody.
[00:21:44] Rose: I think creativity, definitely. I think by nature we're very creative and we have that, I guess that depth of processing, that's one of the, Traits that Elaine Aaron talks about the, the lady who coined the term HSP. And I think having this depth of processing makes us really want to dive into topics, whether we've created these topics or topics that we're really interested in.
And of course, curiosity is a huge one. and love of learning. I know so many HSPs that I talk to and spend time with. We absolutely love to learn and love devouring everything we can about a certain topic and reading, listening to podcasts, doing online courses, and I, yeah, I think it's a beautiful, a beautiful side for us.
[00:22:46] Jenny: aren't podcasts the best? Because it's like you get to, you get to hang in with a friend, but there's no talking involved. You're just quiet. Yeah, exactly. In nature, walking,
[00:22:57] Rose: Sometimes I'm listening to a podcast, especially yours and I just burst out laughing 'cause I just, yeah, that's just, I love that so much.
And it just, I, it just, it all resonates and as you say, it does feel like you're talking to a friend and so many guests that you have on, I feel like I know them. Like, I feel like I know you so well, but even your guests, I feel that I know them because they just, they all resonate so much.
[00:23:23] Jenny: I love that.
Yeah. And it's like our brain probably doesn't know the difference in a way. I mean, of course we know that in-person connection is wonderful. I. And if you're someone that gets overstimulated it, your mind just doesn't know the difference. Like we could be on a walk with two friends and you're mostly in that quiet observer mode and or be sitting at coffee with these two people.
So I can totally understand and relate to that. Like I love listening to podcasts. I think that's why I love creating them so much because they. Oh, they're just so wonderful. Yeah. And relaxing. And I don't have to tell anyone who's listening 'cause you're here listening. you recently did an episode speaking of your podcast on intuition.
And I feel like this is a big gift that everybody has, but there is something about being empathic, highly sensitive, even introverted that I just think intuition is a superpower that comes out especially strongly for these types. I would love to hear your take on this and, how you've developed your intuition over the years.
[00:24:28] Rose: I love intuition. I've, I used to think it was something magic that wasn't available to all of us.
[00:24:35] Jenny: Me too, by the way. Yeah. I used to think only special people had
[00:24:38] Rose: that. Yeah, same. I thought it was a superpower, but then I realized, even before the HSP, before I understood more about the HSP trait, but I realized it is available to anybody who really, has an interest in it and wants to hone it.
But, I guess ways that I've really learned to develop it further is meditation has been a, a big thing for me and I have been meditating for many years. but recently I've been following a guided meditation. I used to do TM, transcendental meditation, but I've been following guided meditations to speak with my higher self, and it's such a, it's such a wonderful, way to connect with your intuition and, you know, really understand what it is, what it is deep down that you want, and, It can even help to answer questions.
You know, if you are sort of having decisions. I even talk to my higher self about the podcast, should I pause it or not? And, you know, getting those clues, getting those, nudges from, you know, some people call it universe, some people call it higher self. There's so many ways. I think journaling is a wonderful way as well.
I do a lot of journaling, and even being in nature, just walking, being around, you know, trees and just, he ocean, just being in nature and absorbing everything around you and looking up at the sky. It sounds a little bit fluffy when I talk about it, but there's just something about having that nature being surrounded by it.
And I'm very blessed where I live, there's a lot of water and a lot of forests around us and National Parks. So I do spend a lot of time outside when I'm not in my office.
[00:26:51] Jenny: Yes, exactly. We'll be spending more time out there. Mm-hmm. One of my, you've heard me probably say it on the podcast, one of my.
Gripes with the business arena is that they say like, intuition is not a strategy and it's all about the data and the numbers. And of course my response is intuition is data. It's just data of a different kind. What's your take on the role of intuition in running a business?
[00:27:17] Rose: I love that question. I think intuition helps us with making decisions like important decisions, and I think it's a huge part of running a business.
You, you get a sense whether your intuition, you get a sense with. not just about people, but about, you know, if you are looking to develop a product or something in your business, you can get a real sense whether it is something that really lights you up or if it's just something that might look good on paper.
That's the data. I think it's much more important to follow your instinct and something that makes you feel good. Rather than something on paper, that paper that might say, yeah, that that could be such a lucrative product. But in the long run, if it's not something that is gonna make you feel good or make others feel good, then yeah, I think that kind of defeats the purpose.
[00:28:19] Jenny: I even read this great tip. I can't remember if it was in Tribe of Mentors or Tools of Titans, one of Tim Ferris's big books. I love them both. And there's this guy who asks his team when he has his week full of meetings, or if someone's requesting a meeting, they include that person's photo. And so, especially when somebody was requesting a meeting or he didn't know them, he would look at their photo, imagine and almost get a vibe check to see it intuitively if he wanted to meet with that person or not. I thought that was really interesting.
[00:28:50] Rose: Oh, I love that. Yeah, that's very interesting. I love both of those books as well.
[00:28:57] Jenny: You know, because you listen to the show that the last question I always ask is, if you could give fellow business owners permission to do something differently or drop something altogether, what would it be?
[00:29:11] Rose: It's so funny, I was listening to your, the, the two episodes recently where you had. It was part, it was two parts, wasn't it?
So 20, so there were 40 permission slips, is that right?
[00:29:25] Jenny: Yes. The big Bonanza episode. Yeah. For episode two hundred and two oh two.
[00:29:30] Rose: Oh, I love them. Love them. And, and I was thinking, oh, how am I gonna come up with a different permission slip? They've all been done. but one that I would really love to share is to remove.
Email and other social apps from your phone. And it might sound a bit scary to some people, but I know you were talking before Jenny, about using your phone just, you know, not for business. and yeah, my, my belief is, is to not have email on your phone, to not have any social apps on your phone. and just check an email on the computer, and if that sounds a bit scary for some people, then you could always start off just removing apps on the weekends and give yourself permission to totally step away from your business on the weekends. And then you can build that up slowly. Take it off at night. And it's easy to put apps on and off your phone if you know if you feel you need it during the day.
Yeah, so that's my permission slip.
[00:30:37] Jenny: That's a good one. I know it's hard to come up with something new now that we've had over 200. You know what else? You just reminded me. Now, at least on the iPhone, there's a setting that if you're in different modes, like focus mode, sleep mode, you can take the number off of the apps of how many notifications.
So, Whether it's email, social, any app that has a little number that shows you how many unread things you have, which are so annoying, so you can just take 'em off either forever. Or during different modes on the phone, and I really appreciate that. Like I have a mode that I set up called Vacation Mode and it's like all the numbers go away.
It's a beautiful picture of this lake at Central Park with trees and the fall foliage and it's like just a calming backdrop photo. It's different lock screen and no numbers on the apps. And even that is calming.
[00:31:32] Rose: That sounds beautiful and yeah, I love that. I don't have notifications. I have no notifications at all on my phone, so I never get those numbers.
[00:31:43] Jenny: Well, I know this is gonna be one of the last episodes before you pause your show. I know you'll do a solo as well, but is there anything else that we missed or that you would want to throw into this conversation?
[00:31:57] Rose: Oh gosh. I think we covered a lot here today, Jenny. It's just been such a pleasure as always to talk with you.
I love our conversations.
[00:32:08] Jenny: Well, me too. And I'm just so happy It's that serendipity popcorn at work because who could know that I met Dave serendipitously and then your, you've been a part of his world for a long time, but living across the planet from where the two of us met with girls across the country from where I live, you know, and it's just so fun to see these kernels pop and this connection that you and I have made and to see it continuing and really becoming something is, it's so rewarding and I love the work that you're doing, and I can't wait to see what this pause brings for you and this sabbatical and slowing things down, pausing the podcast, I know that, whatever emerges will be incredible and I just can't wait to follow along.
[00:32:54] Rose: Thank you so much, Jenny and I just really appreciate this connection that we've got. It's always, yeah. It's just so lovely to connect with you. I feel very blessed.
[00:33:05] Jenny: Me too. Well, thank you so much Rose. Enjoy your time off the pod and listeners, thank you. Thank you so much for being here. Have a beautiful rest of your day, everybody.